View Full Version : Radeon X1800XT, PCIE and AGP with SATA2 on one mobo, OS-X G5 vs Linux x86 (pt2)
The First motherboard released with both AGP and PCIe
and not by ECS, a company with respect...
ASRock (ASUS)
maybe a great upgrade path for someone with a great AGP card that wants to upgrade gfx.. well.. I dunno.
I always go the whole way or not at all,
eitherway, very interesting indeed!
http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=2524
quote: "Many have been looking forward to the arrival of the first ULi chipset retail motherboards since our review of the ULi Reference boards. In the first Reference board review and the updated second ULi Reference, we found uncompromised performance with both the PCIe and AGP 8X graphics slots. This is very good news for owners of high-end AGP 8X graphics cards, since for the first time they can buy a board that will run their AGP at full speed now, with provisions for a PCIe video card upgrade in the future. Since we have found no real performance difference in PCIe and AGP cards of the same type, the ULi M1695/M1567 chipset provides fresh new options for many end users."
Radeon X1800XT Crossfire Edition.... sex on PCIe.. well.. noone knows :(
but no doubt it will be a 7800gtx destroyer..
*watches for nvidias new product release news
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2527
Apple OS-X ..... is it a linux killer... OS-X on G5 vs Linux on x86.. Part 1, and now, Part 2.
Part 1:
http://www.anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=2436
quote 1: All numbers are expressed in microseconds, lower is thus better. First of all, you can see that kernel 2.6 is in most cases a lot more efficient. Secondly, although this is not the most accurate benchmark, the message is clear: the foundation of Mac OS X server, Darwin handles the signals the slowest. In some cases, Darwin is even several times slower.
quote 2: Mac OS X is incredibly slow, between 2 and 5(!) times slower, in creating new threads, as it doesn't use kernel threads, and has to go through extra layers (wrappers). No need to continue our search: the G5 might not be the fastest integer CPU on earth - its database performance is completely crippled by an asthmatic operating system that needs up to 5 times more time to handle and create threads.
overall: great workstation, greater possibilities, needs work, shithouse server
Part 2:
http://www.anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=2520
they didn't test the g5 with linux, after a flood of emails.. they decided to do that.. and find the true slowdown...
quite technical aswell.. but also interesting.
MR_PEA
14-09-2005, 01:40 AM
very intrestin but i would still have a dual sli mobo over that ne day..... how ever i can see it suiting the upgrader though
yeh, I agree..
I see it as the same as the socket 370 and Slot 1 on the same mobo...
but for those who have a top line gfx card, and want a faster cpu, it does have a place
plus sure. sli is lovely.. but who needs it?? think about the cost per performance..
I can play (still) EVERY SINGLE GAME at 4xAA, 16xAS, at 1920x1200 perfect..... its a x800xtpe (well, I need to turn AA off for FEAR SP Demo)
sli is not really a requirement, I seeing it becoming more popular when they are old cards, not the performance mans option, unless they have money to waste.
MR_PEA
14-09-2005, 01:52 AM
well my 9800pro kinda falls short there!
i never had a 9800pro... that makes me sad.
I had 2x 9700 pro, 1x 9700pro black and 1x 9700pro AIW
then went to the 6800
i can't beleive I had so many 9700 cards yet totally missed the next gen :P
probably because my 9700pro black overclocked stable and ran faster than 9800pro's.. but thats not the ppint :P
MR_PEA
14-09-2005, 12:54 PM
indeed..... ive havent o/c my 9800,,, really havent needed to
Snoopy
14-09-2005, 04:31 PM
this makes me feel really sad about the fact that im still running a 9600 pro :(
SnooP
14-09-2005, 07:46 PM
Radeon X1800XT Crossfire Edition.... sex on PCIe.. well.. noone knows
but no doubt it will be a 7800gtx destroyer..
*watches for nvidias new product release news
Its only got 16 pipelines atm, so unlikely to destroy 7800gtx (24 pipelines). Probably be a fairly even match since its got higher clock speed. They have got 24/32 pipelines chips planned but probably not til next year...
Aphex
14-09-2005, 10:04 PM
i never had a 9800pro... that makes me sad.
I had 2x 9700 pro, 1x 9700pro black and 1x 9700pro AIW
then went to the 6800
i can't beleive I had so many 9700 cards yet totally missed the next gen :P
probably because my 9700pro black overclocked stable and ran faster than 9800pro's.. but thats not the ppint :P
ya missed a good gen... my "old" 9800XT 256Mb GDDR2 still owns most next gen cards, although i have since then bought a next gen card anyway, it had to be good... 7800GT... but anyway i still have my 9800 i couldn't part with it, the better built card in my opinion against that awefull GeForce FX line...
but in all honesty i never owned a 9700 at all... i wish i had though... i had me a GeForce 4 Ti 4800, next best thing in my mind... don't get me wrong this aint no debate about nVidia vs ATI "AGAIN"... but it seems that the rivialry is really comming out between these 2 companies!!! with these current generations to make avaliable the most performing graphics card affordable *cough* to gamers and end users... hmmmm
its definately each gen taking a turn per company..
8500 vs gf3 was close.. but nv won
then the 4800 vs 9700 ati kicked
ati absolutly destroyed vs the fx.. even tho the 9800 wasn't much boost (nv fooked up)
tho the 6800 vs x800 is a opinion only gen.. where x800 wins in some ways, and 6800 in others.
7800 is like the 9800 was in its day, the x850 is nothing great, so nv takes the prize
I really hope this close battle keeps up... ati recovered, it took a few gens infront to do it tho, hope this 'a gen per company' keeps up, its good!
SnooP
15-09-2005, 09:27 AM
Yeah hopefully ATI will recover once the 24/32pipe versions come out, as I'd hate to see them go under / bought out by intel. And lets hope they can actually ship there high end cards in good numbers to.
SnooP.
dreaming that pipelines is what makes or breaks a card is about as stupid as thinking .. no, IS as stupid as thinking Mhz is what makes or breaks a cpu.
I have a 4Mhz computer I'm building for a batch weigher.. and its awsome...
but guess what... a 500khz clocked x86 could probably do it faster (if it could clock that slow???, before my day :P)... but that cpu design is what, 15 or about that years old..impossible it could beat a current RISC processor running at 8x the clock.... is it?
same thing man.
the tru difference is whats happenening that 99%of people wouldn't understand even if they explained, they only spew out the fancy sounding stuff, and the biggest impact things..
it may lean eitherway, but looking at pipelines is like looking at mhz on p4/k7, its great to have, but performance may be gained in other ways.
theres a good chance it will kill the 7800, theres also a chance it will be a GeForce FX, saying cos its lacking piped and could go under is pathetic.
SnooP
15-09-2005, 02:04 PM
Yes all valid points, but theres no denying that say a 16pipeline R423 is 15% faster than a 12 pipeline R423 (both at same core/clock). Yes of course a R520 core and G70 core can't be compared purely on pipelines + clock speed but they are important indicators for both performance and marketing. And even if the R520 does make up the difference by more efficient design + higher clock speeds its still has to convince the market it has the goods, and remember it is coming out months behind the 7800gtx. I'm not saying its gonna be a dog, just that its unlikely to be the killer card that was speculated.
As far as going under I was referring to the financial state of ATI, which isn't to grand atm
ATI now expects revenues for the fourth quarter to be in the range of $465 - $480 million(1), compared to the expected range of $550 - $580 million provided on June 23, 2005. Gross margin percentage for the quarter is expected to be in the single digit range, which includes an inventory writedown that is expected to be approximately $60 - $70 million. Operating expenses, excluding the costs associated with stock-based compensation, are expected to be in the range of $143 - $148 million, which is in line with guidance.
In short Revenue for 4th quartor is now expected to be a full 100mil less than previous estimates, not to solid at all.
ATi have a ASCII accellerated card... like BAM...
BRING THE ASCII GAMES!!!!
sif Pixel shaders... more like how fast can that symbol refresh..!!!!!!!
tru powah!
__________________
i think nv has one aswell... ati's I seen was on the 9600A
Aphex
21-09-2005, 12:13 AM
SnooP.
dreaming that pipelines is what makes or breaks a card is about as stupid as thinking .. no, IS as stupid as thinking Mhz is what makes or breaks a cpu.
I have a 4Mhz computer I'm building for a batch weigher.. and its awsome...
but guess what... a 500khz clocked x86 could probably do it faster (if it could clock that slow???, before my day :P)... but that cpu design is what, 15 or about that years old..impossible it could beat a current RISC processor running at 8x the clock.... is it?
same thing man.
the tru difference is whats happenening that 99%of people wouldn't understand even if they explained, they only spew out the fancy sounding stuff, and the biggest impact things..
it may lean eitherway, but looking at pipelines is like looking at mhz on p4/k7, its great to have, but performance may be gained in other ways.
theres a good chance it will kill the 7800, theres also a chance it will be a GeForce FX, saying cos its lacking piped and could go under is pathetic.
another point to make upon differences, someone asked me a while back "so what's the P4 equivilant to a dual G4 Mac?" basically i told them you can't compare different architecture "apples and oranges", same for AMD's PR rating for Intel where we can say for instance that a 3500+ is the P4 performance in Ghz equivilant to a 3.5Ghz Intel chip... i know now it's not so much the case, those PR ratings are way off now... so anyway although a P4 would run at 3.5Ghz, an AMD 3500+ will run at 2.0Ghz where's the difference in speed? as mentioned CVT said that there are other ways to gain speed with out MHz or GHz increase etc etc...
I have read a few things about this new ATI core from perfromance comparisons between 7800GTX in SLi and a X1800XT... well this new core from ATI wasn't killing the 7800 at all... if anything it was having a hard time trying to keep up or even out perform, I think ATI have just bridged the performance gap for now, and I think we should see an Awsome next gen from ATI where it'll become the killer of all NV cards for a long while... then so on, the battle will continue...
3500+ = 2.2ghz
otherwise no comment, I agree :)
Aphex
21-09-2005, 12:35 AM
well what ever, depends on the socket and core type but who cares...
i knew it was going to be questioned LOL...
actually, at first I hated the idea of the XP rating AMD gave there chips.. but now when they have 2.2ghz chips thatr DO outperform 3.4ghz p4's.. it atleast sounds like its in the right area... even if those who know nothing think it means Mhz, they wouldn't know the difference anyway :P
Aphex
21-09-2005, 12:44 AM
lol i know what you mean, some one a while back once said "hey i have bought a new computer, an AMD 2.6Ghz"
hmmm i thought are you sure about that? knowing that there was no such thing at the time, i later had to explain to him the difference is that 2600+ and 2.6GHz are two very different things!!!
but yeah your right they would never know the difference...
funny just looking above...
my 3700+ runs at 2.2Ghz... strange!!!
ohh yeah the answer to your sig (MELENKO) or that how it's spelt?
the 3700+ is the same cpu with more cache
milenko.. but he has hex's, ancient relics, and is from the dark carnival.
SnooP
21-09-2005, 07:04 PM
The 3700+ is also a 'san diego' core instead of 'venice', which generally overclock more :D
Aphex
21-09-2005, 07:10 PM
hence the reason i think the PR ratings are way out...
in most performance tests a 3700+ will performe only slightly better than a 3500+, in most cases the conclusion was that the 3700+ shouldn't have been so highly rated... and yes the san dieago core owns!!! I think the new FX57 is built on this core... great overclock potential!!! absolutly
but in anycase shit happens...
SnooP
21-09-2005, 07:16 PM
yeah fx-57 is san diego as well. of course it defaults to 2.8ghz, but mostly only gets maybe 100-200mhz ahead of 3700+ once both are overclocked :)
not impressed till you start talking opterons... then I shall be drooling :)
Aphex
27-09-2005, 12:26 AM
LOL... if it were only as simple as cutting off a pin from a socket 940 then BAM socket 939 opteron!!! LOL...
pitty, not that i would go buy an Opteron to cut pins off it!!! ouch!!! I havn't read much about the opterons though and from what i hear there no good? is that wrong!!! I would say so... but where's the proof... In my opinion I thought the FX range would take on the socket 940 way of life then the dual core's etc... but in and around this area of the AMD generations i'm a little out of my depth... unless, cvt you meant drool for opterons as in "quads" then hell yeah.. nothing will shine a candel!!!
yeh.. i was meaning nothing less that 2x dual core opterons..
theres nothing wrong with the chips.. just overpriced.. like the MP's were.. unfortunately its not 'join bridge and your XP turns into MP' anymore :(
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